Federation of Parents and Citizens' Associations of New South Wales

Julia Gillard is right: parents want more information about schools, and struggling schools need more funding. I'm not sure we will get that with the MySchool website info. They will not be able to measure the value of a child's overall experience at the school; the teacher attitudes and commitment, or the overall culture at the school. They will also not be able to guage whether the school has a productive partnership with parents. Seemingly parents need this type of information now because they have become disengaged from their school community, whether by choice, or because school principals don't encourage positive parent involvement and information sharing. If parents were treated as "partners", they would be advocating for their schools instead of looking for the next best school to send their kids to. I believe parents are being treated as mere bystanders in regard to their childrens' education. Parents need to wake up and go to their P&C meetings and let the Department/Government know that they are a major stakeholder in the education of their children.

League tables are not able to reflect my child's education. They aren't going to capture information that is significant to our school and they certainly will not "add value" to the community.
So, who exactly will benefit from them? Call me cynical but it appears if they are not for the good of school communities then they are just a poorly constructed political tool............ let us reflect on some of the other jewels that we have had to suffer through............ values with Simpson, palm cards with many versions of the Anthem now available to enrich student patriotism (oops citizenship), quartiles the wonderful A,B,C or D margins and let us not overlook the recent American who was going to dismantle education one Charter school at a time. Wake me up when the Government (no party better than the other on this one) decides to stop using education as a pawn.

While I am aware parents want information on what their child is achieving at school, children learn more than just literacy and numeracy. They do creative arts, sport and other electives in High School. In addition, they are social creatures, interacting with others and participating in a range of school activities. Unfortunately, these interactions are not shown in the tests that are reported on websites. Are they valued?
I want to see my children as more than just a figure on a page. I want to see them as productive members of their school community and valued for all of their skills.I also want to see their school's successes promoted. This does not just mean their academic skills but all of the experiences they have provided for my children.

I agree with the last two comments.
my personal experience is i have two children at the local k-12 school and no thought to moving them, this school will be a likely candidate for the disadvantaged label.. but is that all i get to know about the school on the my schools website? how will people know that the front office staff drove my kids home when i was sick and they were too hot to walk, that the reading recovery teacher made a visabilty vest for my runner asd child and she knew him well enough to make it an army one, that even though he has so major issues at school that they care for him and work with us to help his educational and social outcomes,
that the teachers encourage every day all the kids in their care and know them well, they work to enrich their lives not to teach to some test.. i want my children valued in the community not for some website score but because they are well rounded people. not labelled as failures because they went to this school or that one.

Govt should want all schools to do their best for the kids as should we as parents but naming and shaming the disadvantaged ones wont do that support will.

What an appalling state that we have a Labor Federal Government has stooped so low to deflect its responsibility in funding schools to ensure that all our children are educated and extended in their learning experience. These league tables will harm our children and not harm the governments who are responsibly for funding.
Our political leaders need to learn form countries that have tried league tables and then tossed them out as a failure it makes no sense to spend money on league tables instead of putting that into educational resources.
As a parent it is my responsibility to investigate how my schools achieves results not to have a snap shot of selected subject only to say that this school is better or not than mine or others around the area. One questions why or how a school can be judged on only selected subjects it does not take into account the other subjects and activities that a school provides its students.
Julia if you want to mess with children minds then go and have your own and leave mine alone!

The websire is a fantastic initiative.

I do not understand why such a protectionist attitude is taken by some individuals.

As a parent I want performance benchmarks set, measured and publicised. Why hide this? Who does it protect to hide this information?

For those parents who do not wish to use it, there is no compulsion to do so. Just don't limit the ability of those parents who want this information.

For those schools that do not achieve the desired standards, let's ensure we hold our educators and politicians accountable for improvement.

I as a parent like the League table because it tells us parents what the schools are doing in our childs education; and I am appaul how teachers teach in some areas and I think the Minister for Education Ms Julie Gillard has done a wonderful job in getting the website up.
regards
Ms Yuile

The presentation of childrens performance on a test given in some skills of literacy and some aspects of Numeracy tells me nothing about the quality of my school. Literacy and numeracy are complex skills that take meaning only when those skills are applied and used for education. Let schools get on with the real tesk of education which is to support and foster the growth and development of children as they grow to be valued participating members of society.
Let schools provide an exciting and engaging set of activities so children learn ALL the things that schools can help children learn.

I have had a look at the NAPLAN tests and as far as I can see they are the basics in literacy and numeracy. I can't understand the comments about why they are not an indicator of where kids/schools are at. And the comment that some schools "coach" their kids so they do better on NAPLAN only indicates to me that they are teaching the basics. What is wrong with that? I would love it if they concentrated on getting those basics right with my kids!! Whatever they do above and beyond that is a bonus. Just get the foundations laid down correctly before you venture out into all the other stuff. The NAPLAN results show what schools are getting it right and which ones need to get back to basics.

Transparency is in need of improvement so I am looking to the objecting parties to suggest their alternatives to having better informed parents. Please let's not include assumptions on how parents should be thinking, that the status quo is good, or that parents should be relying on the analysis made by the professionals. We want to be informed in an unfiltered way. Parents are mature enough to recognise the data cannot tell us everything or we'd be waiting another hundred years for a perfect solution. Let's make a start here and improve it.

The My School web site has given the media the perfect opportunity to wage war on our public schools. The Sydney Morning Herald's Education Editor Anna Patty take every opportunity she can find to denigrate public education. See today's "Better Supervision of test needed to stop cheats, say schools" in the SMH.
The article is about cheating in this type of test the US. (One of your preferred education models!).
Yet she manages to include purported new data showing 42% of parents in public schools want to send their kids to private schools!!!! And "support" for private schools has increased from 52% to 70% from 2001 to 2009!!! (Whatever that means?)
Even Geoff Newcombe, president of the independent schools association, criticised the "statistically challenged" site and the SMH's biased use of this data in favour of private schools.

Yes this is really helping to produce a cohesive equitable society.

What an out of touch Federation of P&C Associations of NSW you are to lead in with such statements at the top of this blog! Your determination to highlight and exploit the fear and play to the emotions of parents who simply want the best for their children is disgusting. You like many in the education system have failed to sense the overwhelming public mood of mums and dads hungry for unfiltered information so that they can make informed, intelligent choices about the education of their children.
The myschool web site and associated information is just part of the information us parents want and need to make such decisions - we are not stupid, we can interprete information, have discussions with our teachers and we can make informed decisions. We do value the "all rounding" that teachers instill in our children but they must get the basics of literacy and numeracy right.
We should all look positively forward with enthusiasm and confidence to the new national curriculum, the myschool transparent information and the education revolution as a whole. For the blogs obviously left by teachers - get over it and move on - the days of shutting the classroom door and not being accountable to anyone are over! No quality teacher or school should fear transparency nor accountability.

P&C Federation - remember who it is you represent!!!!!

Thank you!!
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Whats this communist China or DET?

I will be interested to see if the "authority" deems my previous comment appropriate.
Perhaps this is why you have only 11 comments.

I wish that the P&C committee plus the Canteen Association would but out of parents business. Who do you think you are telling parents what their child can eat. Its none of your concern. What about people who tendor these canteens? They have taken on a job, because you people of that school are to lazy to help out one day a week. Now you want to tell the person who has put everything they have into this, that they can't serve certain foods. Mind your own business. I don't believe you had anything to do with me becoming pregnant, so but out. You look after your own child & leave parent to do as they wish. Wake up people, & stop these do gooders from over stepping the mark.

I don't need a website to ascertain how well my child or his school are doing with the teaching of numeracy and literacy. This is because I am a partner in the education of my child and am aware of his progress and also the school's performance as a whole.
Parents who feel they need a website to inform them how their school is performing are obviously failing in the basic parenting responsibility of ensuring their child receives the best education possible. It is not solely the responsibility of a teacher to educate a child. Society today clearly shows that parents are failing in their responsibilities to educate their children in all aspects of life including respect, right from wrong and sound ethics. Because they are also failing in educating their children in numeracy and literature they will use the myschool website as just another tool to shift the blame to somewhere else ie the school and its teachers. Who will they blame when their child fails in other aspects of life eg breaking the law, irresponsible or unethical behaviour, etc.
Come on parents - take responsibility for your children and do what you have to, to become a successful parent and provide the best possible opportunity for your child. Get to know your child's school and its staff personally and don't rely on a website that will not give a true picture of the school's achievements as a whole.
Also, anybody that believes, that an independent school which charges thousands of dollars in fees for a child to attend it will not go to whatever lengths required (including unethical practices) to ensure their results portray the school favourably on the website to justify the fees they charge, must have rocks in their head.

I have to agree with other comments - the P&C Federation is not supporting parents when it comes to NAPLAN tests and publishing of the results.

Getting information on my children's progress at school compared to the rest of the class has been like pulling teeth. Sometimes even getting to speak to the teacher to start with has been an ordeal. I want to be able to see over time how my children are progressing and compare that to the class in general. I then want to be able to see how my children's classes compare to other classes in our school. To see how our school then compares to others on the MySchool website is a fantastic idea.

Literacy and Numeracy are the basic foundational building blocks for education - there should be more emphasis on increasing our children's skills in these two basic areas. If they can read, write and do maths, then they can learn anything.

I am especially interested to see how my Year 3 child does at the NAPLAN tests this year, as this will be the first real comparison we will be able to get for their year. If the year doesn't do well it will give us more to argue with the school and DET over. We are sick and tired of our children being in 'lockdowns', class evacuations, lockouts and generally having their education disrupted. I'd love to see school tables that show how many lockdowns and class evacuations the class has been in for the years leading up to NAPLAN tests (eg for Year 3 show K,1,2 and part of 3). Wouldn't that give everyone something to talk about!

It is about time the P&C stood up for PARENTS - insted of looking after the unionist, self protecting, secretive and deceitful teachers and beaurocrates - who at the end of the day are not interested in putting the needs of each and every child ahead of their rigid system they so love to hide behind.

I would love to see a rule that meant teachers and school staff were not allowed to hold positions in the P&C - maybe then P&C's could really reflect the views of ordinary parents - not teachers/staff protecting their jobs/employer whilst pretending to put parents views forward.

Isn't it about time we let kids be kids. Life is so full of many pressures that we don't need to stress our kids more by creating league tables. NAPLAN is a minute snapshot of your childs education where they are placed in a exam situation as young as 7. The tests last as long as 40 - 50 minutes and then the results are calculated into averages and then put into a league table. Schools are then ranked according to these averages.

If you call yourself a 'well-informed and intelligent' parent surely you would not base your decision on one test on one day. A good parent would go and meet the principal, see what programs are on offer, have a walk through the school and ask for a school package, ask to look at the school plan and where funding is spent. To me it is the everyday plans, programs and school environment that is more important then the ranking of a school based on NAPLAN results.

League tables only place a stigma on a school, remember NAPLAN is 3 tests conducted over 3 days and this is the information displayed in these tables. Not enough information to make so called informed and intelligent choices in regards to a school. If this is the only information you are going to use then I truly feel sorry for your children.

I am furious that the Australian Education Union and Teachers Federation can PREVENT my child from accessing a test which will numerically provide me as a parent an objective view of his educational progress in literacy and numeracy across the country.

At present I receive feedback from my class teachers informally and with half yearly/yearly reports. While this information has been beneficial it is not a reflection of their standing outside the school.

Now my eldest child (Yr 3) will miss this opportunity and I am left wondering where the duty of care is in teaching?

Industrial disputes should better handled by Unions, teachers and alike appropriately and not to the detriment of the children. If they want to fight the league table issue they can - but not at the expense of my child's educational future.

external school test which also carry such high stakes for schools and students distract for the real learning that teachers together with their community foster in children. Literacy and learning skills are not isolated skills but are learnt in a rich context of exciting and creative . USA students do not perform well on comparative measures of educational outcomes yet the Rudd government is following the testing regine of the USA. Please stop this test and let our children have a happy and exciting school life . Dont fail half of our schools and communities. Lets act together to stop this maddness.

Children should not be used as a tool in a chosen political strategy of the teachers union.

Who is standing up for them?

I am sick to death of the Federation of P&C speaking on my behalf with no consultation. Where do you get the authority to speak on behalf of all parents without asking them what they believe in or what they want? I have been an active and involved member of P&Cs for 16 years and an office bearer for most of those. Not once in all those years has the Federation asked P&C members for their views on anything before they issue media releases about the "parents view". It's one of the reasons that local P&Cs struggle for members as they hear these outrageous claims by the Fed and know that they don't represent the views of parents. The links between Fed P&C and Teachers Federation are just a little too close in my opinion (check their street addresses). Its about time P&C fed realise that for all their sucking up to teachers the Teachers Fed has a very different view of parents.

Im a high school student in yr 9 this year, from the Sydney South-West Region and I agree that this Naplan Test should be revoked in NSW. My school isn't the best school compared to the other schools, but it's still a school with an education and a future for me. I think that this test is a waste of time and that results are not what most parents and students want generally. The outcome of the test is ridiculous. The stuff which should be on the MySchools Website should be the achievements of individuals and class work in general, the school's policy and funding, the general school stuff and programs that will benefit the school. The site shouldnt be telling parents to send kids away from a particular school, or to encourage other parents etc. There are many things and ways which will benefit me and the students, but the Naplan test is not one of them. For the sake of this test, i hope that it doesnt go ahead. Thank You.

Im a high school student in yr 9 this year, from the Sydney South-West Region and I agree that this Naplan Test should be revoked in NSW. My school isn't the best school compared to the other schools, but it's still a school with an education and a future for me. I think that this test is a waste of time and that results are not what most parents and students want generally. The outcome of the test is ridiculous. The stuff which should be on the MySchools Website should be the achievements of individuals and class work in general, the school's policy and funding, the general school stuff and programs that will benefit the school. The site shouldnt be telling parents to send kids away from a particular school, or to encourage other parents etc. There are many things and ways which will benefit me and the students, but the Naplan test is not one of them. For the sake of this test, i hope that it doesnt go ahead. Thank You.

Im a high school student in yr 9 this year, from the Sydney South-West Region and I agree that this Naplan Test should be revoked in NSW. My school isn't the best school compared to the other schools, but it's still a school with an education and a future for me. I think that this test is a waste of time and that results are not what most parents and students want generally. The outcome of the test is ridiculous. The stuff which should be on the MySchools Website should be the achievements of individuals and class work in general, the school's policy and funding, the general school stuff and programs that will benefit the school. The site shouldnt be telling parents to send kids away from a particular school, or to encourage other parents etc. There are many things and ways which will benefit me and the students, but the Naplan test is not one of them. For the sake of this test, i hope that it doesnt go ahead. Thank You.

There is no doubt that many teachers have genuine, deep felt concerns, but at the moment we don’t have an alternative to measuring and comparing student academic progress. But what we do know is that a Skills Australia report found that 4 million Australians suffered from a severe lack of literacy and numeracy skills to the point of being functionally illiterate.

An ABS report shows that 52% of Australians aged 15-19 had a literacy level that “was insufficient to meet the complex demands of everyday life and work.” These figures have increased in the last 10 years. In other words, we are getting worse at engaging kids in education.

I believe good teaching makes education happen regardless of resources, and regardless of politics.

It makes me very suspicious when groups don't want results published. Is it really for the sake of the children??

Education is too serious an issue. It is about time something is done. What are we doing about these shocking statistics?? Give these initiatives a chance. Since the MySchool website has been operating, only one simplistic league table has been published. I think they know that the mood of the people is that we are not interested in simplistic data in league tables. We are interested in genuine improvement.

im in yr 9 and i have been to some of the schools that are really high and thereisnt that much a diffrence from where i go know except for the funding ever since this naplan came in the schools that need the funding to to teach us havent been getting it its going to the rich posh schools i know because ive been in one so stop the naplan for us so we get the funding we desperately need.

Ok.... it took me a really long time to sort out the educational and political spin doctoring from reality in this school ranking system. I understand it now but... my various gods... what an utter mess. As for me both my kids are secure, they made the grade into a public fully academic selective high school... but that’s such a small fraction of public education.

On the surface it sounds perfectly reasonable to be able to look up online data to find a good school to send your child too.... in fact it sounds like a RIGHT any caring parent would DEMAND... but the flow on implications.... it’s akin to being on a ship where what appears to be the best and safest lifeboat is clearly labelled as a service to you... everyone thanks the captain... but the act of stampeding to it causes people to be pushed out in the crush (if you are not one of the faster, lucky, smarter or stronger ones) and so you could as easily find yourself relegated to a undermanned leaky boat that has little chance of survival because all the better hands ran to what looked like the best boat.

What’s worse even those people who made it to the ‘best’ boat could as easily find that all the effort went into the crew making it simply LOOK good... a great paint job over a poor underlying structure.

Meanwhile other boats are trying to look just as good, trading their life jackets for paint. Such a mess...

we just did the test and there is not enough time given for the writing exam

More public information should be made available on schools and their performance. Publishing Naplan results should just be the tip of the ice berg. Schools who under perform should then be helped to raise their level of performance - but I don't think extra funding is necessarily the best solution.

I have to question if the Fed of P&C is really just acting as another voice for the Teacher's Fed. Lets face it - some under performance has got to be the result of under performing teachers. What does the Teacher's Fed say about measuring performance of teachers?????

We have school zones in our area - to send your children to a Public school you are not zoned into requires special applications, interviews etc. Thinking another school is better than the one you are zoned into is not an accepted reason for an out of zone application. So will the publishing of Naplan results make a difference in this area - I don't think so.